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Post by muddyboots on Jan 14, 2008 9:44:01 GMT -5
2 weeks ago I bought 4 pictus catfish and 2 pleco's. I've killed all of them except for maybe one pleco that I can't seem to find. GRRR! ...it took me until last night to figure out what the problem was (after talking to a fish store employee). First, my temps were too low for the pictus, so I was told that they probably got chilled, which allowed the ich to flourish. So, they've all been dropping one by one from last Tuesday until the last one, which was floating around half-dead when I left for work this morning. ...and the first of the 2 new plecos is dead and inaccessible right now (he's way under a rock). As far as I know, I'm down to one pleco with a bad cases of ich and my original pleco which, as of last night, didn't look infected at all!?! (But I could find neither of them this morning, which is odd.) I've had this tank (my first) set up with goldfish and pleco's for 2 years with almost no issues. After being so successful with them, I've been trying to prepare this tank (and the inhabitants, minus the goldfish) for my first attempt at cichlids, but now I'm feeling like a fish killer. I had ich once before, I should have been able to spot it, but it was on goldfish the last time, and much easier to diagnose. I guess I've learned some lessons from this mess (I should have known something was up when the pictus wouldn't eat, but they weren't eating from day 1!), but that doesn't help my confidence in going forward with the cichlids. I've raised the temperature to 80*F and may go up higher to "ich treatment temps", but I want to do it slowly. Besides that treating with meds, I guess I just have to wait and see if I can save the other infected pleco and not kill my original pleco that seems ok so far. When the ich is gone, it sounds like I have to wait a week or so while continuing to treat it to make sure it's really-really gone before finally adding the cichlids. Meanwhile, the goldfish I moved out of the tank right after adding the pictus are showing no little dots, but they are rubbing themselves on ornaments and the rocks at the bottom of their little tank, so I'm treating them as well (although I have no way of heating the 20gal tank). One of the two has finrot too, but he's had it for months. (That was the reason I originally moved them from the 72gal to the 20gal tank in the first place -to treat it more aggressively without harming the other fish). Anyway, watching these guys die a horrible death (the pictus's skin just flakes off before they die) because of my own incompetence is really difficult. I'd rather not ever have this happen again. I may just swear off scaleless fish at this point and stick to fish that are less susceptible to these kinds of parasites/diseases. ...I don't know. I just don't want this to ever happen again .
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Cichlidgirl
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Post by Cichlidgirl on Jan 14, 2008 10:47:21 GMT -5
Tommy gun is very good at these things and i will ask him to respond to this post when he checks in today. Hopefully he can have some info to get you on a treatment plan that is best for plecos and catfish. Do not feel responsible your lfs evidently sold you fish with ich and they contaminated your other fish. That is my opinion on what has happened. If you keep a small (like a ten gallon for smaller species) tank to use for a "quarenteen " tank you can avoid this problem in the future by putting all new fish from an lfs into this tank for 7-10 days and if after that time there is no sign of disease or health issues then they are safe to add to your main tank. often these small 10 gallon tanks will fit easily under your main tank out of site. Walmart sells a starter tank with everything included such as heater and filter right down to the light bulbs and packet of fish food . I bought one recently there for 35 dollars and i keep it for hospital tank , quarenteen tank, and also fry tank . Im using it right now for fry. So i find them well worth the money. HOpe this helps and as i said i will ask tommy gun to give his opinion on how best to save the fish with extreme ich and not kill other fish. I do know that you can raise the temp a degree or two an hour letting it rise slowly. You will also want to be sure to put an bubble stone in the tank with these higher temps and salt in the tank, the salt makes it easier for the fish to exchange oxygen through the gills but the higher temps make the oxygen thinner so additional oxygen is provided during this time to counteract that.
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Post by muddyboots on Jan 14, 2008 11:05:14 GMT -5
The catfish will all be dead by the time I get home. The last one was breathing super rapidly and kinda just floating around when I got up this morning, so the last (new) pleco (the one I can't find) is the only one with any hope (assuming he's not dead already). My older pleco has shown no signs of ich so far, but I couldn't find him this morning either (all 3 plecos usually sleep together on the top of my holey rock where the outlet for my filter washes over them, but they were not there this morning). So, yeah, ich treatment advice would be cool. I'm using Aquari-sol right now, no salt (I didn't have any), but I'll pick up salt on my way home today to add as well. I'll also raise the temperature up to 84-86*F. As far as the blame goes, I did get the pictus and the plecos from a chain store, so it's possible that they already had it. They weren't eating from day 1, so... But, I think they could have survived if the temp wasn't too low from the start and if I would have identified the problem and started treatment after the first one kicked it. As for the quarantine tank, yeah, it's good advice and I have a 10gal tank sitting idle right now, but I find that I only get new fish once every 6 months or so, so a quarantine tank wouldn't remain cycled. ...so what do you do? -cycle the tank before buying new fish, put them in a newly cycled (and therefore kindof unstable) tank for 2 weeks, then move them? I'm not that patient first of all... but I'm also not all that confident about setting up a new tank -basically having to get it right twice. ...the odds don't seem in my favor in that scenario. Perhaps I should just buy from a more trustworthy source? I have a great store an hour away from my house. (?)
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Cichlidgirl
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Post by Cichlidgirl on Jan 14, 2008 16:02:12 GMT -5
for your quarenteen tank you would just fill it with water from your tank that you are going to put them into. If need be you should purchase a over the counter ich cure to start treatment if we cant get someone to chime in with the correct dosage and procedure for using the salt treatment.
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shooter50014
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Post by shooter50014 on Jan 14, 2008 16:42:03 GMT -5
I would also like to add when buying plecos make sure to check out their stomach. It the stomach its sunken in there is a good chance they have internal patisites and you would not know till they are dead. If they look iffy in the store its simple just dont buy it.. This is treatable but I would just look for a more healthy pleco. If you are looking for a great cleaner thats cheep I would recommend the bristle nose pleco. They are one of the best cleaners and hardy. The quarantine tank is a great. There is no need to kill off a tank because of one bad fish. My friends who have discus wait 2-4 weeks before adding to the main tank. its a money thing!
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Post by Tommygun on Jan 14, 2008 18:18:23 GMT -5
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kep
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Post by kep on Jan 15, 2008 10:15:43 GMT -5
Thanks for the Ich review Tommy...goodness me can you ever type! ( I think someone is in forum withdrawal...not pointing any fingers ) Just wanted to add another thing about keeping a quarantine tank set up and cycled vs. taking it down between uses.... Option 1 is to keep it up and running, 'feed' it with ammonia between uses (like doing a fishless cycle) then do a huge water change before using it again...or Option 2- take it down between uses then to start back up, take tank water and some filter media from a healthy established tank with similar water parameters as the one the quarantined fish will eventually live in, (tank water doesn't seem to hold a lot of the bacteria needed to cycle the tank, but it will help to keep the stuff in the filter media alive if the conditions/temp are the same)...I am going to be using option 2 and keeping extra filter media in one of my baskets in my cannister to use when I need it to start up my QT tank again. Take Care Karen
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Cichlidgirl
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Post by Cichlidgirl on Jan 15, 2008 10:23:02 GMT -5
good points kep.
i do the second myself too, keep the extra 10 gallon filter running in other tanks while not in use, then transfer tank water when needed and move filter back to 10 gallon.
right now i have my fry in it for grow out until they get moved to 30 gallon.since i dont buy many fish since i have the ones i wanted and should not buy more for awhile.
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Post by muddyboots on Jan 15, 2008 10:27:46 GMT -5
Thanks for all the advice. As far as keeping a quarantine tank cycled, yeah, I cycled my 72gal with filter media from the 20gal and got it up and running in less than a week. But the 72gal has a canister filter, so getting media's not as easy anymore. I guess I could get a filter from the store and anchor it under the gravel for a week or so before I buy a fish, then put it in the quarantine tank... still seems like a lot of trouble. I read on another site that someone suggests just treating for ich for a week at 1/2 strength after getting new fish (instead of quarantining). -I'm still not convinced the ich came from the store, but I guess it's possible. ...I was just under the impression that ich is almost constantly in the tank and it's just when the fish's natural immunity breaks down because of stress (like when the water temp is too low), then they are more susceptible to getting massively infected like mine did. Anyway, I lost my last new fish this morning, so my 72gal is now down to my one original bristlenose pleco who is still not showing signs of ich at all. Problem is, how do I know the ich is gone if MrPleco is the only one left and isn't showing signs??? -Yikes! The water temp was brought up last night to 84*F, but I put it back down to 80*F 'cause 84*F is a bit high for MrPleco from what I read. No use boiling him if he seems to be doing ok. I guess my plan of action is to continue treating for at least 2 weeks -maybe 3 as suggested (?), then...? There seems to be no use quarantining my first round of fish since the tank is basically empty. LMK if you have other suggestions... -Erica ---- photography.muddyboots.orgmuddybootsphotography.blogspot.com
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Post by Tommygun on Jan 15, 2008 20:12:45 GMT -5
This is 100% myth. Ich is a parasite, not an illness and cannot survive indefinitely without a host. The most probably cause of this ideology is the fact that marine ich can live for much longer without a host (perhaps a few months) so it seems as though it can suddenly pop up even when no new fish are brought to the tank....which isn't to mention that it can be brought in on live rock, sand, coral, etc....which occurs more often in a SW tank for most of us. Anyways, Ich is very possible to have an Ich free tank. That is why some of us can make mistakes in our very well established tanks and not wind up with Ich. As I explained, it also has to come into your tank via a liquid. You can 'sanitize' your equipment by lettng it dry out. You don't...keep treating. What you are reading is the right temp for long term maintenance of a pleco...they can handle higher water temps for a short period of time. I doubt you can find any of the fish you have or want to have as being "best kept" in temps of 84 or 86 degrees. Probably not...you might not have any real reason to wait for adding new fish either to be honest. If you keep your pleco healthy, it will be ok. I can promise you that I have performed some very deep research on this subject and would not lead you astray. Right kep...cichlidgirl? Whatever do you mean.... ? ;D I can ramble on for hours on any forum.
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